Being Bayta with Amanda Kreitler

Welcome friends, to another special episode of Seldon Crisis. I have a guest today who should
sound very familiar to those of you who have listened to the story episodes starting with the
Mule and through the three episodes of Second Foundation. Before I introduce her, however, I
want to take you way back to the fifth episode of this podcast, The Merchant Princes, which
described the adventures of the trader Hober Mallow in the early decades of the Foundation’s
successful spread from their remote world of Terminus through the neighboring worlds of the
galactic fringe. You might remember that Hober traveled to a world run by a strongman named
Asper Argo, who went by the title of Commdor, and that he had a wife named Licia, the
Commdora. Licia had the honor of being Asimov’s very first significant female character in the
story. It was as if women didn’t exist in the galaxy before that point, for all the mention they
received in the first four chapters of the story.
You may also recall that, in my efforts to bring a little color to these characters through voice
acting, something I’d never really attempted before this podcast, the absence of female
characters was somewhat convenient, as it wasn’t too difficult to create voices for Hari Seldon,
Salvor Hardin, Mallow, and several others. When it came to voicing Licia, though, I felt a little
out of my depth. Nevertheless, as she was still a somewhat peripheral character, I hoped my
weak attempt at sounding female might slide by, and nobody really complained about it.
Fortunately, the two episodes of The General returned to the male only cast, but I knew I was on
the precipice of a crisis. Asimov seems to have realized there had to be important women in the
galaxy, and he introduced a major one in the story of the Mule. Bayta Darell was no fringe
character. She was the central protagonist with a whole heap of very important lines that I would
certainly have to include in the story. I knew voicing her myself would be a huge mistake, so I
started brainstorming where I was going to find a female voice actor capable of fulfilling the
mission. About this time I stumbled upon another podcast called Severed Fate, an audio version
of a table top role playing game featuring multiple characters and a female narrator named
Amanda Kreitler who struck me as highly versatile and extremely talented. I emailed her and
asked if she might be interested, and to my very great delight, she agreed to take on the role of
Bayta. I had no way of knowing at the time that she would not only kill it as Bayta, but take on
several more roles in forthcoming episodes of Seldon Crisis including Lady Callia, Momma, Poli,
the Darell’s made, and a member of the Second Foundation simply known as the Fifth Speaker.
She even brought along a member of her household, her husband Zac, to take on the role of
Lord Stettin. Amanda assures me that Zac is actually a very nice guy, nothing like the odious
and power mad First Citizen of Kalgan.
Before bringing Amanda on, let’s recall one unfortunate shortcoming of Asimov as a writer in
those early days. He was not particularly comfortable with women in real life and in his fiction.
The only notable female character he’d produced in his short stories was a robotics expert
named Susan Calvin, who had never exactly exuded femininity, describing her as a plain, cold,
and highly analytical woman. Asimov had not had a lot of experience in his youth with women,
and his first marriage to Gertrude Blugerman was a mostly arranged sort of affair, and seemed
to be largely unhappy for both. In later years he became infamous for getting a little too touchy
with some of his female fans at conventions, earning the nickname, “the man with a hundred
hands.” It shouldn’t be surprising that his first fleshed out female character, Bayta Darell, would
be a little rough around the edges. Despite all this, Bayta was a wonderful character, and I really
hoped to bring out her best features with the lines I selected for Amanda to perform. If you’ve
heard the three Mule episodes, possibly my favorites in the entire podcast, you know well that
the experiment succeeded beautifully.
Let us now get to know the real person who brought Bayta to life.
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Joel McKinnon: So. Hello, Amanda Kreitler. How are you doing?
Amanda Kreitler: I'm m doing well. How are you, Joel?
Joel McKinnon: Not too bad. it's been a long time since I've heard your voice actually since way
back when we worked on Second Foundation and I heard three different voices from you at that
time. I remember. and this is the first time I think I remember this. I think it may be, it might be
the second or third time I've actually talked to Amanda and not to a character that you’re
playing. It's very refreshing to talk to the real you.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, thanks. It's good to talk to you too.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. So, I've already introduced you a little bit. I've talked about how I found
you and know that stuff in a pre recorded intro. So we can just get on with some chit, chat about
the experience of being Bayta.
Amanda Kreitler: Sure.
Joel McKinnon: and whatever else is on your mind. but the first thing I wanted to talk to you
about is You were pretty new to Asimov, right?
Amanda Kreitler: Yes, I knew of Asimov, and knew of some of his works. But I had d never really
gotten into reading him. so I was new to everything that we did in the Mule Part 1, 2 and 3 and
the foundation and that whole series and found very, very interesting in the parts that I did have.
I actually went out and bought the book and a volume with all of the foundation in it and it's like
gold leafed on the outside and has a built in bookmark. And then my son started reading it as
well. So I think you've made some new converts over here.
Joel McKinnon: How old is your son?
Amanda Kreitler: He's 16 now.
Joel McKinnon: 18.
Amanda Kreitler: 16.
Joel McKinnon: Oh, sixteenah. yeah, I have a son too and he's 28 now. But when he, when I
started, well, I read this back in my teens and I had never read the sequels or the prequels or
anything and there's. It was only the core trilogy at that time that existed and I read I read it all
during the pandemic and you know, fell in love with it again and felt like sharing it. And first
person I shared it with was my son and he read it as well. And we read all of them, all seven
books.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh wow.
Joel McKinnon: And I've also read a lot of other Asimov. he used to be one of my favorites
growing up. So it was kind of a trip down memory lane. And it's all been just a wonderful
adventure to work on it. But so I think you might have known. I think we might have talked about
how, Asimov was not particularly very, comfortable with women in general in his life or in his
fiction. he wrote a couple of really interesting female characters before we got to. Before he got
into Foundation. one in particular that's really well known was Susan Calvin, a robotics expert.
But she was very cold, very like, administrative and like, really smart. But, you know, kind of
Asimov, like in, you know, a lot of his characters are very much parts of his own personality.
Amanda Kreitler: Sure.
Joel McKinnon: And he wrote her like that, you know, and he seemed afraid of, kind of like
putting any kind of genuine, like, sex appeal into a woman. In his work and in his real life he was
really problematic with women, in that he. He went to a boy school. He didn't see girls growing
up much except the ones that came into his, into the shop where he was working. He had
worked in a magazine store for his parents owned, or no, a candy storem and but it had
magazine racks. And that's how he read all this science fiction and fell in love with it, but.
Amanda Kreitler: So he was your typical awkward teen'what? You're telling me?
Joel McKinnon: I would say more awkward than typical. I mean, just. He was really awkward
and you. Ah, he was kind of like, he had not a forced marriage, but a kind of an arranged
marriage that wasn't really comfortable and didn't last very long. it lasted a while because it was
really difficult then to get a divorce. And it was. That was awkward too. So he put up with, you
know, a very uncomfortable marriage for a while. And then, you know, it was. It was really later
in his career that he had a lot of, you know, kind of groupies coming after him. You know, his, at
his talks and conventions and things. And he behaved rather inappropriately.
Amanda Kreitler: I'm sure he had no clue.
Joel McKinnon: Right.
Amanda Kreitler: How to really react with that.
Joel McKinnon: And it comes across in his writing, as you may. May have noticed, a little bit.
Amanda Kreitler: Little bit, yes.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I was trying to make. I really wanted to redeem Bayta as a character and
make
00:05:00
Joel McKinnon: kind of filter out. I have, the advantage of being able to be selective about
quotes. So I was able to like, kind of winnow away some that I didn't find as good. And then I left
it up to you to. To really turn her into a real person more than he could.
Amanda Kreitler: And I think even with what you did provide that, there was only one line I think
I may have either changed or omitted. with everything, all the script that you had sent me. And I,
I remember it.
Joel McKinnon: It was now, it was the one about Bayta's weight. Oh, right, yeah, it was the
misogynist father of Toaun.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes.
Joel McKinnon: Was kind of, picking on her. yeah, then that's totally fine. I also took out a part
right near the end, that was a little more weighty. not to make a pun on that, but I'll get to that
when we talk about that scene at the end, at the end of the Mule.
Amanda Kreitler: I think I know which one you're talking about. Yeah.
Joel McKinnon: Okay. so what did you like and not like about the character as you've read her in
the script?
Amanda Kreitler: She actually reminded me a lot of myself. young, intelligent, kind of that
activist heart, but also naive at the same time. having that trust in people and maybe even
without cause sometimes.
Joel McKinnon: Yeahe. She was definitely opinionated, wasn't she?
Amanda Kreitler: She was. and not all of it maybe 100% correct. but she was not afraid of
voicing her opinion either. And I really liked that part about her. She would stand up and just.
Oh, you want to know about me? Well, here I am speaking of, meeting her, Tori's father. Just
this is my height, this is my age, this is what I studied in school. Here I am. Take me. You know,
that was a fun little thing to do as far as standing up to that misogyny, kind of face on and being.
Here's what I know you want to know about me. And here's more about me that makes me a
real person.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. So that first scene really was fun to script and fun to act the other people
in it. when I think back, it's amazing. I had to do all the other characters.
Amanda Kreitler: Feel your pain. Because in what I do through recording, which we'll talk about
later, I have the same problem.
Joel McKinnon: When I listen back to it now I'm feeling like Torn. Sounds awful. Lot like the
narrator. Maybe I didn't distinguish some of the characters very well, but I tried.
Amanda Kreitler: It's ah, not easy, that's for sure.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, yeah. so let's get into the next scene where they go to Cal ggan on a
honeymoon, which is a very different kind of honeymoon than most people have.
Amanda Kreitler: Right.
Joel McKinnon: They go as secret agents, basically. in the most important secret agent mission
you could possibly imagine going to find out something about get intel on the greatest villain in
the galaxy.
Amanda Kreitler: Right.
Joel McKinnon: And Bayta seems pretty casual about it. She doesn't seem to have much
Trouble with it.
Amanda Kreitler: And I think that's the naivety that that she has as she doesn't really grasp the
full picture of everything. She just has this desire to enact change and make things better
without understanding the gravitas of the situation. Which was fun.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And m. One of my favorite scenes that I remembered from reading it in
high school was meeting Magnifico on the beach. to me that. And I just was so excited to play
Magnifico. I wanted to do that so bad. and I'm really glad I found that voice for him. I don't think I
could even do it again.
Amanda Kreitler: No, it was a good one. It was very distinct and it really. I felt captured how
Magnifico would have presented himself, I think. And I really enjoyed your rendition of that
character.
Joel McKinnon: Well, good. the, the scene was. Was kind of interesting. Was really interesting.
Especially what we found. I find out later about it. But with Ton, you know, his. His u. You know,
strong guy, you know, looking out for. He wasn't looking out for Bayta, he was looking out for
Magnifico.
Amanda Kreitler: Y. Yeah.
Joel McKinnon: Which was kind of weird. but we later find out why.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And then, But she shows some bravery and especially I think, on the ship
when they get back into the ship and on their way, she's pretty brave, with Han
00:10:00
Joel McKinnon: Pritcher's arrival and like there seems to be a strong possibility that any moment
the mule might arrive and they're not really ready for him. And one of my favorite parts is when,
you know, he pretty much says when Pritcher tells them, you know, you don't realize how over
your head you are. You too.
Amanda Kreitler: Right, right.
Joel McKinnon: And they kind of say, okay, know.
Amanda Kreitler: You handle it right.
Joel McKinnon: And then he basically gives it right back to them. And you're going with this
clown all the way back to Termonus.
Amanda Kreitler: Right.
Joel McKinnon: And you know, we'll take it from there. so that was an interesting, There were
some really interesting dialogue in there. Do you remember anything about those lines that you
wanted to talk about?
Amanda Kreitler: I just know that for as far as voicing Bayta and trying to get a feel for her and
getting those lines out and acting, interesting. I don't know if I had told you this, but I've kind of. I
channeled a bit of like Kathatherne Hepburn, a little bit of that intelligent, quick speaking pattern,
not afraid to stand up to men. acting more confident than. Maybe she really is. Interesting.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I have to watch some.
Amanda Kreitler: Old Ktherine Huing movies, I really pulled from the dialogue and it felt like that
that's really, really. Her essence is she may be in over her head, but she's not going to really let
on that she thinks that unless somebody just flat out points it out to her. and so a lot of that
dialogue, I really tried to pull that. Just pretending like, no, she's good and confident with
everything that's going on, but have that hint of a little bit of nervousness and, that being young
and not knowledgeable about everything that's going on at the same time. it's a tricky balance to
play. But I feel like the dialogue in the books was done well enough to help pull that out as well.
that was part of. I did like a, lot of that, what Asimov put into that dialogue.
Joel McKinnon: He's very good at writing, smart characters. Yes. They're always like the most
intelligent people around.
Amanda Kreitler: Right.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. and it's, ah, pretty interesting how, the relationship between, Bayta and
Magnifico develops as they go on the ship and then as they get back to Terminus and they meet
with, Ebing. Miss,
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, one secondup.
Joel McKinnon: A friend here, Toby.
Amanda Kreitler: There we go. There's probably just a car that pulled up outside.
Joel McKinnon: Please welcome on the podcast. What's his name?
Amanda Kreitler: His name is Toby.
Joel McKinnon: Toby. All right, great. Okay. we'll have to find a ro Rolel for Toby.
Amanda Kreitler: There you go. We can get him to bark. All we got toa do is go stand outside
KN front door.
Joel McKinnon: I mentioned in the sentientism, podcast last time, that I don't think there's a
single animal in all of, foundation.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, my goodness.
Joel McKinnon: I can't remember any animals that Aumah mentions. Do you remember any of
this? I don't.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, my goodness. I can't think of anything. No.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, he wasn't real good about that. He didn't like doing aliens until later he
wrote. He added some aliens in other books, but not in Foundation.
Amanda Kreitler: Well, I mean, he referred to Magnifico as. Not Magnifico, but the mule as an
alien.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, he thought it possible. Alien, Magnifico, somewhat alien. but he still
considered him human. And I think it's that Asimov was just really into humans. He was the
humanist, president of the Humanist Society actually, for a while.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, really? I did not know that.
Joel McKinnon: But he also was like, really into history and had read, the Decline in Fall of the
Roman Empire twice.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, wow.
Joel McKinnon: Which is A long book.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes, yes.
Joel McKinnon: And had written, he was a big fan of Shakespeare. Wrote a, whole volume of
Shakespeare. I have it on my shelf.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, wow.
Joel McKinnon: Guide to Shakespeare. So it's great because I can look up like a play of. I want
to watch it and get all the Asimov takes on it.
Amanda Kreitler: Hey.
Joel McKinnon: He also wrote, two books on the Bible. his guide to the Old Testament and New
Testament.
Amanda Kreitler: I had no idea.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I've read those and they're fascinating. mean, he was an atheist, but he
doesn't write them in like a ridiculing it kind of style. It's more like let's try to draw out what kind
of real history there is behind all this. yeah, that was the angle that I was really interested in
understanding.
Amanda Kreitler: That is interesting. Yeah, yeah.
Joel McKinnon: I had no idea was an interesting woman,
00:15:00
Joel McKinnon: in the Old Testament that he really kind of got interested in and added a
character, brought her into another story. He wrote, Jezebel.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, really?
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And he talks about Jezebel and how she got kind of like really got, ah, a
bad rap from history, from the way the Bible is written. But, even the way the Bible is written is
better than the way she was later interpreted and made into this kind of caricature. Evil woman.
Amanda Kreitler: Of course. Hence where Jezebel comes from in our modern day on how to
describe somebody.
Joel McKinnon: Right, right. So anyway, I got off on a sidetrack there.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, no, it's okay. That happens all the time.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. Let's get back to, the scene with Eing miss and Bayta and Magnifico,
when the Visi sonor first appears.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes. I found that as one of the more interesting, descriptions in all of the
sections that I was a part of. just the description of Magnifico, like plucking the neurons of her
brain to create the performance in three dimensions the way that was described. And it was
very fascinating, really. I almost kind of want to see it in movie form, see somebody create that
so you can have a better visualization. But it was a really fun visual, to get.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And Jeremy did a great job with the soundtrack behind.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes, absolutely.
Joel McKinnon: That was very cool. yeah. What was I going to say? Oh, the, I think I mentioned
in the narration that I found that to be so poetic, that description, that I quoted it at length. And
he's not known as a poetic writer necessarily, but that was a. Something he really threw some
color into.
Amanda Kreitler: Interesting. Yeah. Everything else does seem a lot. I don't want to say dry
necessarily, but not nearly, as you say, poetic and, flowery. but yes, I did find that to be a much
more descriptive, flowery part, of what I did read. Everything else did seem a lot more almost
scientific.
Joel McKinnon: yeah, that was his background. He was a chemist, you know, and he was like,
that's kind of the writing he knew before he became a science fiction writer.
Amanda Kreitler: That makes a lot more sense.
Joel McKinnon: it took him a while to really find his, poetic side, but he threw it in there once in a
while. Now we get to, big scene. The big pivotal scene. The cliffhanger of the first part. Terminal.
The Terminus. appearance of Harry Seldon in the Vault.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes.
Joel McKinnon: and, that was so much fun. and you didn't have much to do in that scene, other
than, like, be kind of shocked. Shocked. Yeahah. You're feeling the horrible tone of, the
emotional tone that Magnifico or. I mean, I'm sorry, spoiler alert. The Mule is cast.
Amanda Kreitler: Know, I don't know if it's a spoiler when it's this many years later. Right. If you
haven't read it by now.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, we. Are we getting into that. so, yeah, anyway, that was
a fun scene, to write and to play. And, Jeremy definitely had fun with the sound for that.
Amanda Kreitler: Yeah, the ambiance and the background sound of the people of the crowd,
while, Harry was talking. It was really, really well done. I really liked it.
Joel McKinnon: It felt Jeremy would disagree with R because he had never done anything like
that. And he thinks he learned a lot and would do it very differently, if you did it again. he thought
you, like, overdid it.
Amanda Kreitler: you know, I felt the same way. In a lot of listening back to a lot of my stuff, I'm
like. I feel like I'm over acting a little bit.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I definitely don't always enjoy listening to myself. So, after the Mule takes
over Terminus, then we get into part two. And, this is where I found a challenge because I was
trying to script this, episode. And, you know, the first thing I'm looking at it is, God, this is a bleak
episode. There's not much fun in here. You know, it's like a lot of, down, dour stuff happening.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes.
Joel McKinnon: And one of the first dowr scenes in the book is this scene with Bayta at work,
where she's handling some kind of, you know, breakdown of one of her coworkers. And I Read
through that. And my first thought was, well, we don't need this. I can just summarize this
quickly because it's gonna be very difficult. I only have one, voice actor who can do a female
voice. And then I thought, you know, so far she has taken up every challenge.
00:20:00
Joel McKinnon: So why don't I see issues up for this? And I think I said, if you're willing to try it,
could you be four different women in one scene?
Amanda Kreitler: And I'm always up for a challenge.
Joel McKinnon: So tell me about how you took that on.
Amanda Kreitler: Well, the first thing I did was read through, not just that scene, but beyond that
scene where Bayta is also talking to Tori after the fact about what she's experiencing at work.
And I actually pulled from that as well. She talks about how, even the mousey ones are feeling
this way and there's these people doing this thing and these people behaving this way and the
way she kind of breaks down what she's experiencing at work. I pulled straight from that to kind
of create these voices because one of them, I mean, obviously one of them was a woman
crying, which makes it really easy to sound like a different person because if you just cry
through trying to talk or try to talk through crying, m. You're not going to sound like anybody
else, just doing a regular voice. but I took the mousey description, that was in her later dialogue
and to create that second voice of just the light voiced mousey woman.
Joel McKinnon: And she's kind of talking with. That's trying to like, she's kind of like her best
friend on the job or something.
Amanda Kreitler: Yeah. And then for the third character, the woman who. And I can't remember
her name now off the top of my head, there you go. Who is more of the naysayer and trying to
help bring people down. And as it's later in the scene stated that she's probably the one who
kind of took over one Spadea left. and Bayta, you could tell that Bayta was annoyed with her.
And it's actually stated that Bayta has some annoyance with her. So to add to that and to help
the, the listeners feel that, I put some more nasal tonality, to that character because just to kind
of give it that a little bit more annoying feel sound to it. And that's kind of how I did that. I had
Bayta as Bayta, a crying voice, a, mousey voice, and then that just a little bit more annoying
nasally voice to really help bring out what she then later describes to Tori as These people that
she's interacting with and the issues she's dealing with at work, to kind help pull that all together.
So that's kind of how I created and figured out how those voices would go.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, well, I thought it came off really well. When I listen to it, even now I don't
hear one person. I hear four different people.
Amanda Kreitler: O thanks. Because I still just hear me. When I listen back I'm like, oh, there's
me doing nasal. Oh, there's me doing a mousey voice. Hopeh. There's me crying. But I think
that's one of those things for any voice actor. I'm sure we're all like that where it's just. It's hard
to feel like you're hearing somebody different when you're trying to do another voice.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And I tried my best to mix them, pan them back and forth and stuff and
made it add a little bit of separation. So. Okay. Now the one thing I have to say about that whole
scene and what follows on Haven is that it really sets the tone that dark, depressed, the Mule is
really working on those people from Orb, wherever he is.
Amanda Kreitler: Even Bayta's whole, that scene where she's talking to Tori, she gets. After she
leaves work and is going through it. There was a whole rollercoaster of emotions for her during
that was fun to pull from because her initially being more spunky and you know, intelligent and
gung ho, feeling. Whereas in this scene talking to Tori and just the despondency that was kind
of. It was very interesting to play and I just loved how her emotions evolved over the course of
that conversation from like a despondency to hopelessness to frustrated and a little frantic to a
little bit of anger even. and I think that by the time she was done talking to Tori she kind of had
talked herself into. She's ready to leave and actually do something.
Joel McKinnon: So then what comes next is they take off on this mission, to go find the Second
Foundation because that's their only hope and they have to take this long erratic trip across the
galaxy, with toaurarent at the controls and he's like making. It's getting really tense and
everybody's getting really irritable.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes.
Joel McKinnon: there's one scene ah, that I didn't really develop very well but I found so
comedic in just reading it which is like where they get so TN and and Bayta get so pissed off at
each other
00:25:00
Joel McKinnon: that there's like a wrestling match on the floor. Like, y. Yeah, I wasn't sure how
to handle that one. but we do have an opportunity for some like, comedy a little bit later. when to
this, when we get to, Neoraantor, the rump kingdom which'left of the Empire. And we have this
scene with Dagbert the ninth.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes, Dagabbert.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, the last. And Bayta has a really important role to play in that, conversation
because, she has to be the one. She's the one who kind of thinks on her feet really quickly and
figures the conversation.
Amanda Kreitler: Yeah, yeah.
Joel McKinnon: Lead the conversation to get him to do what she wants to do.
Amanda Kreitler: If you make it think it's their idea, make them think it's their idea.
Joel McKinnon: Right, right. So I had fun being Daggerbert. He was one of my favorite
characters, to play. so then, there's this shocking end of it, where they. We, we see the visit
business owner once again, when Magnifico pulls it out to save the day after.
Amanda Kreitler: They get am the crown prince.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And the crown prince is knocked out, we think, and they head for the
ship. And then the final line of that part, the cliffhanger, is, Oh, you know, I think you heard him
or you knocked him out or something. No, I killed him.
Amanda Kreitler: And the way you delivered that line was actually a little creepy too. It was one
of those that gave me some chills and I was like, ooh, that's a different Magnifico than we've
heard before. That little, It was ominous. It was great.
Joel McKinnon: Thank you. Yeah. so much fun. So then, we get into part three, and in part three
things, are really desperate and we're down to just the big four here of, Bayta and Tauren and
Ebing, M and Magnifico. and it's all in one scene, all at, the Imperial Library in the ruins of
Tranttor. And, this was, I think, a huge challenge for you to be this, to go through this intensely
psychological state that she had to deal with, leading up to the big twist.
Amanda Kreitler: Yeah. and I also really liked the. I know that Captain Pritcher wasn't, as huge
of a part in this section, but just her talking to him and the realization, of everything. I think that
felt like it was really the start of the realization of everything for her and her mind. And it just kind
of got things rolling, rolling, rolling. and that feeling of, betrayal and, determination.
Joel McKinnon: That she Wasn't going to roll over for this.
Amanda Kreitler: Exactly. And it's a much deeper, more base level emotion, when you get into
that type of thing. And so usually for that I try to pull more from my own experiences. We've all
had lives and we've all dealt with our own, difficulties and things like that. And I certainly. I'm
sure we've all had our moments of betrayal and being determined, to overcome that and move
past that and do something different with that. and so that's where that was, definitely more
personal section. for me, this whole last part with her having to intentionally hide her intentions
when she's realized what's going on and not say anything to anybody because she knows she
can't because then it's. The game's afoot and she's got. It's all very. I love how it all comes
together and it was a lot of fun to really dig down into. what's nice about voice acting in general
is you can really pull from those, and then you can step back and go, okay, I'm not there
anymore. This is not really happening. It's not real life. I can breathe and then jump back in and
get back into the intensity of it again.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah. Ah, well, you did a great job on that. And, I think my
favorite part, maybe because I was like, so involved in it myself as Miss. As Eing. Miss. I love
that character to death. no pun intended.
00:30:00
Joel McKinnon: But his, I think that was another one of these, very Asimovian characters.
Amanda Kreitler: The scientist working himself until he's exhausted and, fading. And I love that.
Love. I say that in a sarcastic way, but it seems like exactly what a male writer would do is, oh,
there's a female here. Okay, so we're going to have her come in and say, you need to go take a
bath, you need to take a shower, you need to go outside and get some sun and be mom to this
older, you know, brilliant scientist. All right, I know I'm only like 20 some odd years old, but
you're going to listen to me.
Joel McKinnon: And yeah, I can see you picked out a side of that that wasn't apparent
immediately to me. But. Yeah, I can hear that. I can hear that part. but then the, you know, right.
Leading up to, the big denou, I guess you call it turnaround, the twist. it's, ah, I love how Eing is
just so absolutely exhausted. But he's also like, ah, he knows he's Found the solution he's been
searching for.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And he's about to tell them, and then you have to just kill them.
Amanda Kreitler: Right? Yeah. The shock of that. And honestly, the first time I read through it, I
had not read that part in the book. I had just read it in the script, and I was like, whoa, what just
happened? and then had to go reread that again. And, what's going on? Why did she shoot
him? And then reading everything, I'm like, oh, my gosh. I can't believe it. so that was fun for me
to discover for the first time. that twist. it was completely unexpected, on my part. So that was
fun.
Joel McKinnon: Poor Ton had to just, like, be exposed as a complete idiot.
Amanda Kreitler: Yeah. Aw. Yep, that's true. Oh, goodness.
Joel McKinnon: You mean I wasn't a tough guy.
Amanda Kreitler: On the beach, and I had a lot of fun with her. she had just this huge run of
dialogue at the end when she's explaining everything to Tori and why she did what she did and
think about this. And then there were a couple of points where she was realizing something as
she was explaining it, and you could hear it, in the dialogue. So it was fun to, like, oh, and that's
something new that I'm just now realizing, too. Well, look at this. So that was a really fun set of
heavy dialogue to do when she's. This is what happened. I noticed it in the vault. that same
feeling come over me. And then again in this. I can't remember the next time she felt that same
thing. or right before they left. oh, my mind just went, ble.
Joel McKinnon: She's putting it all together, like, the. All the times they escaped, at.
Amanda Kreitler: The last moment, y.
Joel McKinnon: How unlikely that would be.
Amanda Kreitler: And it felt like she had a lot of that already put together, but she was also
discovering new things as she was talking, and that she didn't maybe realize fully before. And it
felt really. I don't know. I'm kind of an activist at heart to it. It felt like she was really being that
activist person. And so it was fun to pull the whole.
Joel McKinnon: Ha.
Amanda Kreitler: I win. I beat you, mule.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, that was kind ballsy to say, you know, we beat you completely at.
Amanda Kreitler: This point, to the point where she was ready to say, now you can kill me. It's
fine, because I know I beat you. I did what I set out to do and stop this.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, well, she. You get the sense that she really understood. Shen really
understood, in a way, how the mule was kind of Hooked on her in a way he didn't have. She had
this way of disarming him.
Joel McKinnon: that gave her some kind of a little bit of a shield.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes. And I really feel like that the dynamic between Magnifico and Bayta, I feel
like Asimov may have pulled really from his real life that it seems like something that you forgive
somebody, you find this person that you're just like, oh, they see me in a different way than
everybody else does. I'm used to people kind of looking down on me or having a certain opinion
of me right away. But this person was just open. And now I'm just fascinated and want to be
around them all the time because they treat me differently and they treat me like a regular
person and not like everybody else does. And I felt like there may have been parallels between
Asimov and his real life in that particular relationship.
00:35:00
Joel McKinnon: And I'm thinking back to his autobiography because I read his whole
autobiography and he talks about those years a little bit and he doesn't talk about any particular
person but the way I'm thinking of it, it might be like somebody he was longing for.
Joel McKinnon: who he didn't havees in his life. And in a way that sounds a lot like the woman
he eventually his second marriage, Janet, who was a psychotherapist actually. And she was like
kind of the first woman in his life who could.
Amanda Kreitler: Really someone who could actually get him.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. Y. Understand, understood him and was able to like you know, have a,
have a productive strong relationship with him. you know, whereas earlier there hadn't been
anything like that. So in a way it's kind of a foreshadowing of the woman he was to meet
because I think just comes. I don't think he had met her when he wrote those, all that dialogue.
Amanda Kreitler: So maybe it was a desire for that kind of relationship. Interesting interest.
Joel McKinnon: So anyway that's where we end up. and that's the mule. The mule does come
back and we have him later. But you didn't get much involved. You got to be a computer like
character. Oh yes, the fifth speaker, which I thought was great. very different from Bayta. not so
human at all. a secondation.
Amanda Kreitler: I kind of think of it as almost like a deity type voice to somebody who doesn't
have that emotionality to them where they're just an all knowing presence is kind of where I
went with that. Is trying just to remove that emotion out of it.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. So the Speakers of the Second Foundation are kind of like high priests of
this mentallic order, and you're one of them. You're representing that. that was great. And then
we end up, Then you're not much in that one at all. but I'm glad I got you to get involved a little
bit, because I. Coming into the final stretch was Second Foundation. You got a lot of work to do.
I, don't know. You might have had more lines than. No, probably not as many as in the beta
ones.
Amanda Kreitler: There were a lot of beta lines.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Lady Callia had a lot of lines.
Amanda Kreitler: She did.
Joel McKinnon: What did d you think of Lady Kia?
Amanda Kreitler: she was. I had her a little bit of a harder time kind of pinpointing her, only
because I wasn't exactly sure of her intentions myself. So it was hard to figure out how to play
what her intentions were for a while.
Joel McKinnon: but in a way, that's what the reader wants, too, because the reader isn't
supposed to know what her intentions are. It kind.
Amanda Kreitler: And that definitely comes across. So I guess maybe me not quite
understanding her intentions in the beginning worked out well to our advantage in that way.
Joel McKinnon: Right. And, she had an awful guy to have to deal with.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, gosh, yes.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah.
Amanda Kreitler: There were times because, Zach had voiced. That was the character Zach
had voiced. Right.
Joel McKinnon: Ye Lord Sutton.
Amanda Kreitler: And we had talked about that, and there were a couple of times where I'm like,
no, that's a little too creepy. Yeah, let's pull that back just a.
Joel McKinnon: Little in the text, it gets very creepy.
Amanda Kreitler: No, I'm sure Ye sounds like it does.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. Yeah. but, I think it was. We made it family friendly enough.
Amanda Kreitler: yes.
Joel McKinnon: That, it worked out pretty well. And I'loved being able to have you two work
together on those parts. I figured you'got.
Amanda Kreitler: We work together. Well, that helps.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. Yeah. So, let's see. you also got to play Mama. This another. It's
interesting when I think about it. You played three Second Foundation in a row. You played the
fifth speaker, and then you played Lady Collia, who we later find out is from the Second
Foundation, and Mama as well is, that one. That's, you taking care of Arcady. Yes, and very.
Amanda Kreitler: And I'm glad you found another voice actor, because I think that that character,
Arcady, is just too young for me to pull off well. but being Mama, was fun. And a lot of where I
pull the voice from for, like, Lady Callia and Mama and Poly. especially those characters. I
actually derived them from the dialogue
00:40:00
Amanda Kreitler: itself. Sometimes the dialogue just speaks to you and you can hear a voice in
your head of that person talking before you develop a voice for that character yourself.
Sometimes the dialogue just lends itself to certain types of, accents or vocal inflections. And
that's a lot of what Mama, especially Mama and Poli were, were just the way it was written. The
dialogue, they had, the words. The words that Asimov chose to have them speak really, lend
itself to a specific speaking pattern and type of vocalization. that just made it fun to experiment
with and really get those characters fleshed out a little bit more.
Joel McKinnon: Well, Paulie was one of my very favorites that you did. just because she had
that sass. yes, she was so strong.
Amanda Kreitler: It was ritten with a lot of sass. And that's fun. When you get that kind of a
writing, you're like, oh, heck, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joel McKinnon: So, that kind of wraps up who you've been. but, there's a good possibility you'll.
That listeners may hear more of you.
Amanda Kreitler: If I can come up with more voices.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And I definitely have some in mind. but I'm not sure I should tell the
listeners yet who you're going toa be or maybe because I think they should sometimes. You
know, I don't like to watch the making of kind of things before I watch a movie. I don't like to hear
about the behind the scenes things before. I'm.
Amanda Kreitler: You want to wait till after?
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. So we can talk about it later?
Amanda Kreitler: Ah, okay. Sounds good.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. But, I will just let you know that there's some really interesting dialogue
coming up.
Amanda Kreitler: I printed a lot of pages of dialogue to look over, so. Yes.
Joel McKinnon: All right. So, yeah, we didn't talk about Zach's contributions much. he was really
only one character, in Second Foundation, but he was a really important character and I was
blown away. He really became that creepy guy. Yeah, very creepy. very, Megalania.
Amanda Kreitler: Completely opposite of his natural personality. and so I think that was. I mean,
he would have to. I can't speak for him, but I think that was probably a harder one for him to do
just because it's so outside of his. He's just a sweet, sensitive, caring guy. And the last thing he
wants to do is upset or creep anybody out or anything like that. He's very open and type, of
person. And so having to play that type of a character, I feel like it Was probably a little tough for
him to do.
Joel McKinnon: Okay, well, that gives me a hint of what kind of things I should send his way. But
I like to challenge people too, as you kind of know.
Amanda Kreitler: Yes. And being challenged is never a bad thing.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. So, what are you working on yourself? How is the podcast Severed Fate
and Dimension Oror? How are those? What's the status with this?
Amanda Kreitler: Well, Dimension Door, we actually stopped after, and Dimension or. And
Severed Fate just to do a quick explanation. Is there a podcast? it's a ttrpg. It's a tabletop role
playing game podcast. And most people know of Dungeons and Dragons. And this is a, ah, very
similar offshoot called Pathfinder, that we play in the Dimension Door. I was, a voice actor. I was
one of the players and so is Zach, and that we did for, gosh, three years. and then our GM and
his wife was also one of the characters, in the story. everybody had just gotten to a point where
we had put so much into it that we were all exhausted and, overwhelmed.
Joel McKinnon: I know how that.
Amanda Kreitler: It's a lot of work to put together, something like that and get it recorded and
edited and out and. And on a regular release schedule because we try to stay as regular as
possible. So after we had what's called a TPK or a total Party Kill, where a big bad guy actually
killed every single one of our characters in one episode, we decided to call it quits.
Joel McKinnon: One way of dealing with it.
Amanda Kreitler: Yeah, we were thinking about creating all new characters and starting back in.
And then, we just realized that some of the players and the GM were just too tired and it wasn't
as fun as it was before. and so, we've set that aside. And so after season three, we hadn't done
anything else. Now, for Severed Fate, that is also a Pathfinder TPRPG podcast, but it's, more
horror themed,
00:45:00
Amanda Kreitler: which is, a lot up my alley. I love horror, was born just a few days shy of
Halloween.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I kind of got that sense centered.
Amanda Kreitler: Centered around my, life very well. And so what's fun about this particular
podcast is it's really based on all the familiar horror tropes. We've got one part of, it's a series of
six books. And one of the books is all about haunted prison. And then the next book is about. It's
almost, like a Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster type of situation where they have to
actually go through a court Case and try and get this, this big hulking monster, Frankenstein.
Ah, monster off out of jail and get him set loose. And then there's werewolves. And that's the
book we're in now, that's currently being, released. We actually just released where we are
releasing episode eight tomorrow, of our new book. And so I'm the GM for that. And so speaking
of doing a million voices, I populate the entire world these characters walk through. So anybody
they meet, I have to voice that character. So for instance, they find this swanky lodge, and they
are talking to the housekeeper, and they're talking to the cook, and they're talking to the lodge
waren, and they go talk to the hunts master and then they talk to the rich folk who are all at this
lodge, Swanky lodge, hanging out. And every single one of those characters, I have to come up
with a voice and a personality for, so they can have conversations and get clues about what's
happening in this Shutterwood forest, with the werewolves. So it's a lot of fun, but it is a lot of
work. and it's hard to come up with new voices consistently that sound different.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I.
Amanda Kreitler: But it's a lot of fun and it definitely stretches my acting skills. And again, it's the
Severed Fate podcast and it release new episodes every other Thursday.
Joel McKinnon: do you, can you tell me what's the most number of voices you've been in one
episode?
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, my goodness. There was in the first book that we played through, where
there was the haunted prison. There was what they call the Wheel Day market. It was like a
farmers's market. And the characters, the players all decided to go and they just walked around
town square and talked to everybody. So I was probably, let's see. 1. I was probably like eight
different voices in the same sitting because they would just talk to somebody and then
somebody would come up and talk to them and then I would have a conversation with myself as
two different people that they would jump into. And so, yeah, I try to do that minimally because
that's not easy. But I think that was. That was probably about eight different characters I played
in one scene as they walked through this farmer'market and talked to people and had
conversations with a couple different, what they call non player characters or NPCs at a time.
So that was challenging.
Joel McKinnon: I think my biggest one was, well, I did like 11 characters in Second Foundation
altogether. I know, but there, there was one long scene with like five, I think, all speaking
together for quite a while. And it was like all these twist after twist after twist. Who's controlled by
the Second Foundation, who's not?
Amanda Kreitler: And so do you record those lines, like, one character at a time and then
respond to yourself, or do you jump back and forth?
Joel McKinnon: Oh, that's a really good question. I, think I probably should have done it that
way. I tended to do it. I tended to do it just reading the script and jumping into each character.
And sometimes I made. Sometimes that was hard, and I didn't do a good job because of that.
And I often thought that it would be better to, like, take each character and, like, do all that
character's lines and then go into another character and do all that character's lines. and I might
do that in the future just to see know if that works out better. I think part of it is I'm not sure I
could get the pacing the same way.
Amanda Kreitler: That is the tough part. And I think that pro was probably the most difficult part
of, doing my parts of the foundation was not having another voice to act off of, but in reading the
dialogue and then having to jump in with my parts, not exactly sure how the other parts were
going to be performed.
Joel McKinnon: You know what? And I got the benefit of hearing your parts before I recorded my
parts so I could put your part in and, like, react
00:50:00
Joel McKinnon: to it. So I got that. Then I got to do that, and you didn't. So I'm sorry about that.
Amanda Kreitler: No, that's okay. but as far as trying to jump back and forth, the tricky part of
that is, for me, anyway, when you're going from one voice to another, my voices would start to
meld, and then I would, like, one of my characters would have a weird accent for one line. I'm
like, wait a second. That wasn't right. Hold on.
Joel McKinnon: O. It happens all the time. That's why I can't listen back toaulan crisis very
much, because I hear those kind of things happening. Like, oh, no, you didn't hold that
character's voice.
Amanda Kreitler: That was all Torin. I wasn't heling miss. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. So anyway, I guess, that about covers most of it. I'm so glad you, came
on and talked about this.
Amanda Kreitler: Well, thank you for having me.
Joel McKinnon: Tremendous insight. And it's so much fun to just go back through and, like, a
retrospective.
Amanda Kreitler: On these rel listen for be stories.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. And I really look forward to working with both of you again.
Amanda Kreitler: And we look forward to working with.
Joel McKinnon: You and hope the, listeners will get the, benefit of that.
Amanda Kreitler: absolutely. Not too long. Lucky listeners.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah, I think they've. Most of them gave up on me, ever doing another, story
episode because it's been so long, but so it was. They will be really happy to hear that we're
talking about.
Amanda Kreitler: There you go.
Joel McKinnon: Yeah. Whoever has left. I had quite a few downloads for the last one. I was
really happy that, there still seemed to be a decent audience.
Amanda Kreitler: Oh, that's good. Yeah, I'm glad to hear it.
Joel McKinnon: Yep. Okay, so I wish you the best, both of you, and, I'll, let you know, what
comes next.
Amanda Kreitler: All right, Sounds great. Thank you very much.
Joel McKinnon: All right.
Amanda Kreitler: Have a great evening. Bye.
Joel McKinnon: Bye, man.
Amanda Kreitler: Thanks. Bye.
00:51:55
—-------
It was wonderful getting to know Amanda better in this conversation, and so much fun to revisit
the story of the Mule. I can never forget the power of this story as it first hit me when I read it as
a teenager, and the shocking twist at the end when we realize the Mule has been with us for so
long, within close proximity of the characters we identify with as protagonists. We are left with a
deep respect for Bayta as she pulled off the most amazingly heroic act of hiding the knowledge
she had gained about his identity from the one who seems most capable of penetrating the
deepest recesses of the human mind. It seems an impossible task.
Towards the end of Second Foundation, the First Speaker, in conversation with his acolyte,
reveals the truth. Bayta was helped in this impossible task by the Second Foundation, who were
presumably lurking nearby and managed to avoid being detected by the Mule as he was
focused on working poor Ebling Mis near to death to determine their location. It was they who
had really pulled off the miracle, not Bayta. This really bothered me when I considered the
implications, because I so much wanted Bayta to be the unlikely heroine of the story —
Asimov’s first significant female character almost single-handedly saving the galaxy. If it was all
to the credit of the Second Foundation controlling her, that seemed to deflate her heroism
significantly.
The reality, though, is that it was Bayta’s compassion and empathy that derailed the Mule’s
agenda. She wasn’t controlled by the Second Foundation when she encountered Magnifico on
the beach at Kalgan, or throughout the long series of adventures she shared with him. Her
natural inclination to see him as a friend in need of her support, rather than as an object of
ridicule, is what led him to avoid controlling her as he would have, and did with Toran and
eventually the unfortunate Ebling Mis. She may have had the help of the Second Foundation
while on Trantor, but her suffering and desperation for the cause were genuine, as was her
horror at realizing what it was she needed to do. She was also genuinely brave in telling the
Mule to his face that he had been defeated already, and that his mission was doomed to failure.
So let’s give a cheer to Bayta for the amazing qualities she showed under such immense
pressure, and for the author who overcame a significant weakness in creating her.
As alluded to near the end of the discussion, you have not heard the last from Amanda on
Seldon Crisis, as new story episodes are indeed forthcoming. It’s been a long break, but I’ve
finally overcome the blockage or burnout or whatever it was that kept me from continuing for
well over a year. I enjoy these guest episodes, but the heart of the podcast is still the story of
Foundation as told my Isaac Asimov, and there is still a lot of story to come. So stay tuned, for
the next episode of Seldon Crisis.